Dr. Vignal.

— Dr. Vignal, a titular member of the Society, having offered himself for a study on a living person, as occurred with the Count of R…, was evoked at the session of February 3, 1860.

(To Saint Louis) May we evoke Dr. Vignal?

Answer. – Without any danger, for he is prepared for this.

Evocation.

Answer. – Here I am. I swear in the name of God, which I would not do if I were answering for another.

Although you are alive, do you deem it necessary that the evocation be made in the name of God?

Answer. – Does God not exist for the living as much as for the dead?

Do you see us as clearly as when you attended our sessions in person?

Answer. – More clearly.

In what place are you here?

Answer. – Naturally in the place where my action is necessary: to the right and a little behind the medium.

In coming from Souilly to here [Paris], were you aware of the space traversed? Did you see the path you took?

Answer. – No more than the carriage that brought me.

Might we offer you a chair?

Answer. – You are very kind, but I am not as fatigued as you are.

How do you ascertain your individuality, here present?

Answer. – Like the others.

Observation. – He alludes to what has already been said in a similar case, that is, that the Spirit ascertains its individuality by means of the perispirit which, for it, is the representation of its body.

Nevertheless, we would be grateful if you yourself would give us the explanation.

Answer. – What you ask of me is a repetition.

Since you do not wish to repeat what was said, it is because you think the same way?

Answer. – But this is quite clear.

Thus, for you, your perispirit is a kind of circumscribed and limited body?

Answer. – It is evident. No comment.

Can you see your sleeping body?

Answer. – Not from here. I saw it on leaving it; I felt like laughing.

How is the relation established between your body, which is in Souilly, and your Spirit, which is here? Answer. – As I have already told you, by a fluidic cord.

Will you describe, as well as possible, so that we may understand the manner in which you see yourself, abstraction made of your body? Answer. – It is quite easy; I see myself as in waking, or rather – the comparison is better – as one sees oneself in a dream. I have my body, but I am aware that it is organized in another manner and lighter than the other. I do not feel the weight, the force of attraction that binds me to the Earth when awake. In a word, as I told you, I am not fatigued.

Does light present itself to you with the same coloring as in the normal state?

Answer. – No. It is increased by a luminosity inaccessible to your gross senses. However, do not infer that the sensation produced by colors upon the optic nerve is different for me: what is red is red, and so forth. Only the objects that I did not see in waking, by reason of the darkness, are luminous and perceptible to me. Thus, darkness does not exist at all for the Spirit, although it can establish a difference between what is light for you and what is not.

Is your vision indefinite, or limited to the object to which you give attention?

Answer. – Neither one nor the other. I do not know at all what it may undergo, as modifications, for the entirely freed Spirit. But, as for me, I know that material objects are perceptible in their interior; that my sight passes through them. Nevertheless, I could not see everywhere, nor at a distance.

Could you lend yourself to a small experiment of proof, not motivated by curiosity, but by the desire to instruct ourselves? Answer. – By no means; this is expressly forbidden me.

It was for you to read the question that has just been brought to me and answer it without my saying it.

Answer. – I could, but, I repeat, this is forbidden me.

How are you aware of the prohibition that has been made to you?

Answer. – By the communication of the thought of the Spirit who forbids it me.

Well then! Here is the question: Can you see yourself in a mirror?

Answer. – No. What do you see in a mirror? The reflection of a material object.

I am not material and, therefore, I can only produce the reflection aided by the operation that renders the perispirit tangible. [v. question 16.]

Thus, a Spirit who found itself in the conditions of an agenere, for example, could see itself in a mirror?

Answer. – Certainly.

At this moment, could you judge the health or illness of a person with as much certainty as you would do in your normal state? Answer. – With more certainty.

Could you give a consultation, if someone asked it of you?

Answer. – I could, but I do not wish to compete with the somnambulists and the benefactor Spirits who guide them. When I am dead, I shall not say no.

Is the state in which you now find yourself identical to that in which you will be after death?

Answer. – No. I shall have certain much more precise perceptions; do not forget that I am still bound to matter.

Could your body die while you are here, without your suspecting it?

Answer. – No. We die thus every day.

This is understood as regards natural death, always preceded by some symptoms. But suppose that someone strikes you and kills you instantly; how would you know it? Answer. – I would be ready to receive the blow before the arm dealt it.

What need would your Spirit have to return to the body, since there would be nothing more to do?

Answer. – It is a very wise law, without which, once out, we might often hesitate so much to return to it, that it would be a pretext for committing suicide… hypocritically.

Let us suppose that your Spirit were not here, but at home, strolling about, while the body slept. Would you see all that took place there? Answer. – Yes.

In that case, let us suppose that some evil action were committed there, on the part of a relative or a stranger. Would you witness it? Answer. – Without doubt, but not always free to oppose it. Nevertheless, this happens more often than you imagine.

What impression would the sight of that evil action give you? Would you be as affected as if you were an eyewitness? Answer. – Sometimes more, sometimes less, according to the circumstances.

Would you experience the desire for vengeance?

Answer. – To avenge myself, no; to prevent it, yes.

Observation. – It follows from what has just been said and, moreover, it is the consequence of what we already know, that the Spirit of a person who sleeps knows perfectly what takes place around it; whoever would wish to take advantage of sleep to commit an evil action to his prejudice deceives himself when he believes he is not seen. Nor should he even count on the forgetfulness that follows awakening, for sometimes the person may retain an intuition strong enough to inspire mistrust. Premonitory dreams are nothing but a more precise recollection of what has been seen. It is yet another of the moral consequences of Spiritism. By giving the conviction of the phenomenon, it can be a curb for many people. Here is a fact that comes in support of this truth: One day someone received an unsigned and very discourteous letter. In vain did he try to discover its author. It is possible that during the night he learned what he wished to know, because the following day, on awakening, and without his having dreamed, his thought turned to someone he had not suspected and, after a verification, he made certain that he had not been mistaken.

Let us return to your sensations and perceptions. By what do you see?

Answer. – By my whole being.

Do you perceive sounds? By what?

Answer. – It is the same thing, for the perception is transmitted to the Spirit by its imperfect organs. To you it must be clear that it feels, when free, numerous perceptions that escape you.

(A bell is rung) Do you hear the sound perfectly?

Answer. – More than you.

If you were made to hear discordant music, would you experience a sensation similar to that which you feel in the waking state? Answer. – I did not say that the sensations were analogous; there is a difference. But there are perceptions much more complete.

Do you perceive odors?

Answer. – Without doubt; always in the same manner.

Observation. – We might say, according to this, that the matter enveloping the Spirit is a kind of muffler that dampens the acuity of perception. Receiving that perception without intermediary, the freed Spirit can capture nuances that escape the one to whom they come, passing through a medium denser than the perispirit.

It is understood, then, that suffering Spirits may have pains that, by not being physical, from our point of view, are more poignant than bodily pains, and that happy Spirits have pleasures of which our sensations can give us no idea.

If you were before appetizing dishes, would you feel a desire to eat?

Answer. – The desire would be a distraction.

Suppose that at this moment, while your Spirit is here, the body is hungry. What effect would the sight of those dishes produce on you? Answer. – This would make me leave to satisfy an irresistible need.

Could you make us understand what takes place within you when you leave the body to come here, or when you leave us to take up the body again? How do you perceive it? Answer. – This would be very difficult. I enter as I leave, without perceiving it, or, better said, without being aware of the manner in which the phenomenon operates. Yet do not think that the Spirit, on entering the body, is shut up as in a room. It radiates incessantly outward, in such a way that it may be said that it is frequently more outside than inside. Only the union is more intimate and the bonds tighter.

Do you see other Spirits?

Answer. – Those who want me to see them.

How do you see them?

Answer. – Like myself.

Do you see some around us?

Answer. – In a multitude.

[Charles Dupont, the disturbing Spirit of Castelnaudary.]

Evocation of Charles Dupont (Spirit of Castelnaudary) — I heed your call.

(To the same) Are you more tranquil today than the last time we called you?

Answer. – Yes; I progress in good.

Do you now understand that your pains will not last forever?

Answer. – Yes.

Do you glimpse the end of the sufferings?

Answer. – No. For my punishment, God does not permit me to see the end.

(To Mr. Vignal) Do you see the Spirit who has just answered?

Answer. – Yes; he is not pleasant to see.

Can you describe him?

Answer. – I see him as he was seen, with the difference that he no longer has blood or dagger, his physiognomy revealing more sadness than the ferocious stupidity it presented at the first apparition.

Awake, do you have knowledge of the portrait that was made of this Spirit?

Answer. – Yes; besides, I am informed.

When you see a Spirit, how do you know whether its body is dead or alive?

Answer. – By its fluidic cord.

How do you judge this one's moral state?

Answer. – His moral state must be quite sad; but he is improving.

(To Charles Dupont) You hear what is said of you. This should encourage you to persevere in the path of progress, upon which you have entered. Answer. – Thank you; that is what I seek to do.

Do you see the Spirit of the physician with whom we are conversing?

Answer. – Yes.

How do you see him?

Answer. – I see him with an envelope less transparent than that of the other Spirits.

How do you judge that he is still alive?

Answer. – Common Spirits have no apparent form; this one has the human form. It is enveloped by matter resembling a mist, reproducing its terrestrial human form; the Spirit of the dead no longer has that envelope: it is freed from it. [v.

Story of a Damned One.]

(To Mr. Vignal) If we were to evoke a madman, how would you recognize him?

Answer. – I would not recognize him if his madness were recent, since it would have had no action on the Spirit. But if he had been deranged for a long time, matter could have exercised a certain influence over him, producing signs that would serve me to recognize him, as in waking.

Could you describe to us the causes of madness?

Answer. – It is nothing but an alteration, a perversion of the organs, which no longer receive impressions in a regular manner, transmitting false sensations and, for that very reason, performing acts diametrically opposed to the will of the Spirit. Observation. – It happens often that certain creatures, whose Spirit is perfectly sound, present in their limbs and in other parts of the body involuntary movements independent of their will, for example, what we designate under the name of nervous tics. It is understood that if this alteration, instead of occurring in the arm or in the muscles of the face, occurred in the brain, the emission of ideas would suffer. The impossibility of directing or dominating this emission constitutes madness.

[Dr. Cauvière.]

After Mr. Vignal's last answer, the medium serving as interpreter to Charles Dupont wrote spontaneously: These Spirits (those of madmen) are recognized by their arrival among us, for they turn in all directions, having no firm idea, neither of God, nor of prayers. They need time to steady themselves. Signed: Cauvière.

As no one had thought of calling this Spirit, Mr. Belliol asks if it might not be that of Dr. Cauvière, of Marseille, of whom he was formerly a pupil. – A. Yes, it is I, dead a year and a half ago. Observation. – Mr. Belliol recognizes the signature as being that of Dr. Cauvière. Later it was possible to compare it with an original signature and to ascertain the perfect resemblance of the writing and the flourish.

(To Mr. Cauvière.) To what do we owe the honor of your unexpected visit?

Answer. – It is not the first time I have come among you. Today I found a favorable occasion to communicate, and I took advantage of it.

Do you see your colleague Dr. Vignal, who is here in Spirit?

Answer. – Yes, I see him.

How do you recognize that he is still alive?

Answer. – By his envelope, less transparent than ours.

This answer agrees with those Charles Dupont has just given, which seemed to us to surpass the reach of his intelligence. Was it you who dictated them to him? Answer. – I could perfectly well influence him, since I am here.

In what state do you find yourself, as a Spirit?

Answer. – I have not yet reincarnated and, although being an advanced Spirit, I was far from believing, on Earth, in what you call spiritualism. I must make my education here, where I am. But my intelligence, perfected by study, came upon me suddenly.

If you wish, we shall put to you a question prepared by Mr. Vignal; and we shall ask the kindness of the answer, each on his own side, with the aid of your particular interpreters. How do you now regard the difference between the Spirit of animals and that of man? Answer. – It is not much easier for me to say it than in the waking state. According to my present thought, the animal Spirit sleeps, is morally torpid, whereas in man it awakens initially in a very painful manner. – Answer of Mr. Cauvière: The Spirit of man is called to a greater perfecting than that of animals; the difference is appreciable, since, in the latter, it exists only in a state of instinct; later instinct may perfect itself.

Can it perfect itself to the point of becoming a human Spirit?

Answer. – It can, but after having passed through many animal existences, whether on our planet or on others.

Would you have the kindness to dictate to us, one and the other, each in turn, a small spontaneous address, on a subject of your choice?

DICTATION OF MR. CAUVIÈRE.

My good friends, I feel so happy to be able to converse a little with you, that I wish to give you a piece of advice, not to you, particularly, who are believers, but to those whose faith is still wavering, or who have none and reject it. It is true that I cannot see here all my living colleagues, who would not believe in me. Nevertheless, I would tell them that, in life, I haughtily rejected the truth, although I felt it in the depths of my heart. The majority of them do as I did: out of a false self-love they do not want to agree with what they sometimes experience. They are wrong, because indecision makes one suffer on Earth, above all at the moment of leaving it. Instruct yourselves, then; be of good faith; in life you will be happier, as well as in the world in which I now find myself. If you truly wish it, I will come to converse with you a few times. Cauvière.

DICTATION OF MR. VIGNAL.

Of what use is Astronomy, and what does it matter to us how long the cannonball takes to travel the distance that exists between the Earth and the Sun? Thus reason very honorable people, who see in the sciences no other results than the application that can be given to industry or to their well-being. But without Astronomy, what reason would you have to adopt the admirable system we are developing, instead of another, authored by ignorant or envious Spirits? If the Earth, as was anciently thought, were the central point of the Universe; if the numerous suns that people space were nothing but simple shining points fixed on a vault of crystal, what reason would you have to admit the past and the future of the Spirit? Astronomy, on the contrary, comes to demonstrate that the planetary life, which circulates around our Sun, is reflected around all those which compose the nebula of which our world forms part; that all these planets are organized in a manner different from one another and that, consequently, the conditions of life are not the same. You are then led to ask whether God creates instantaneously and for each body, especially, the Spirit which is to animate it. For what reason would He have deemed it just to create it here, and not there, on Earth and not in another world, in such a condition and not in another? An inflexible logic thus leads you to admit, as the expression of the greatest truth, the habitability of the worlds, the pre-existence of the soul, and reincarnation. Then Astronomy is useful, because it puts you in a condition to receive the outline of the sublime truths which, for you, will be developed as a consequence of the progress that Spiritism and Science itself will make. For, aided by industry, it is called to lead you to the discovery of many other marvels that you could only have glimpsed. Henceforth, Astronomy and Theology are sisters and will march hand in hand. Vignal, through Arago.